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Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 28 Dec 2007 9:56PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Clift, Hollocombe, Bottrall, Sims, Bray, Penrose
Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone can give me any information on Thomas Bray and his wife, Mary? I have one of their children as an ancestor: Ann Stephens Bray, born about 1795, married to John Clift 22 Apr 1819 in Falmouth. Both John and Ann were minors and married with the consent of their parents. Witnesses were John Clift, Thomas Bray, Mary Bray. I have always assumed that Thomas and Mary Bray were Ann's parents, but have not found any corroborating evidence. I did find a Thomas Bray marrying a Mary Penrose 1 Nov 1799 in Redruth. The IGI shows this couple as having four children christened in Redruth: Eliza Loveless (1807), William James (1805), William James (1809), William James(1812). Does anyone see a connection or can anyone provide me with more information on Thomas & Mary Bray of Redruth, early 19th century?

Thanks.

Maurine Nuttall
Granite Bay, California

Re: Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 19 Feb 2008 2:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Do you know if John Clift 22 Apr 1819 in Falmouth has a brother?
Or who might be his parents?
I have this and any help will be appreciated. Thank You

Descendants of James * Clift

1 James * Clift b: September 20, 1769 in Falmouth, Cornwall, England d: Aft. 1851 in Jacobstow, Cornwall, England
:: +Martha * (Unk) b: 1777 d: Bef. 1841 in Jacobstow, Cornwall, England
2 James * Clift b: Bet. 1805 - 1811 in Jacobstow, Cornwall, England d: Aft. 1891 in Jacobstow, Cornwall, England
::: +Susanna "Susan" * Bone b: Bet. 1811 - 1813 in Boscastle Forrabury, Cornwall, England d: Aft. 1891 in Jacobstow, Cornwall, England Married: April 08, 1832 in Saint Gennys, Cornwall, England


Harley R. Briden
Tico0@Bellsouth.net

Re: Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 19 Feb 2008 4:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Harley,

I received your query tonight. John Clift had three brothers: Richard, b. 1806, Charles b. 1815 and James b. 1817. Richard is my gg grandfather and I've also documented Charles' family very well. I don't know what became of James Clift, b. 1817. I have been aware of the Clifts in Jacobstow, but have never found there to be a connection to my line. This probably doesn't help you very much. . .nevertheless, good luck with your researching.

Maurine Clift Nuttall

Re: Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 31 Mar 2008 2:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
I have Penroses from Redruth Cornwall but not seeing any familiar names. Sorry.

Re: Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 29 Dec 2010 5:48PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Bray and Penrose
Hello Maureen. I don't know if this is any help but I have researching the Penrose family for years. My branch of Penrose which is clearly a Cornish name ended up in East Yorkshire but having done a DNA test there are a list of individuals to whom I am related and one of these is a fairly close match at a 25 marker match which could mean a relationship be within the last 250 years. One thing that is apparent is that many other surnames come up as matching Penrose. There is only one Penrose match so far. These other surnames may be matched with me for a variety of reasons. One of these surnames is someone called Bray or Brahe who now lives just to the north of Stockholm in Sweden. This DNA connection between Penrose and Bray could be coincidence but equally it could be a lead. My other research on the Penroses shows circumstantially that my branch, all who would have carried the Y chromosome to wherever else they ended up,were located not far from Redruth in the 1463 at the Manor of Connerton in Gwithian in Phillack. There is godd cicumstantial reason to believe the Penroses were tenants of the Arundel family and one of the Arundel estates was in Oxford in the UK and they could have taken their tenants from Cornwall to Oxford UK or from Oxford to Cornwall. I'm not sure but Bray may have been a name local to the Oxford area but equally and more likley it forund its way into Cornwall because of transport in ships.
Ken

Re: Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 31 Dec 2010 12:56PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Penrose, Hollocomber, Holcombe, Stephens and Bray
Maurine, further to my last message, I note that you also have a Hollacombe family connection. This is very interesting to me as a Penrose in that, as I mentioned in my last email all sorts of surnames of persons have come up as DNA matches. However given the clear western origin of Penrose I have taken a particular interest in those names which are westerly based. West in the UK that is. Apart from Bray my Penrose DNA name matches show a connection to the name Hollocombe. Other varieties of this name are Hollacombe and Holcombe. So there are now two names mentioned in your message of 28 Decemeber 2007 that match with my family. Hollocombe is a place near Holesworthy on the Devon/Cornwall border and my reseacrh shows that it is near some estates owned by the Arundell family in Devon. The surname would have come originally from someone who came from there. Hereditary surnames were forming in the UK from the 12th century but more commonly in the west around about 1350 onwards. However, it is clear from loooking at the manor rolls from the Arundell's Cornish estates that hereditary surnames were still forming in the 1460s. The Arundells estates would have to have been tenanted and this was usually by trusted tenants from other Arundell estates in Cornwall and Gloucestershire and Dorset. I note that Ann is called Ann Stephens Bray. Stephens is yet another Cornish/Devon origin name which has shown as a match to my DNA. Clearly there must be a connection between us.

Re: Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 31 Dec 2010 7:49PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Hollocombe, Bray
Hi Ken,

I'm sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner. We had company (children and grandchildren) for Christmas and I haven't spent a single moment on family history. I'm still trying to get things organized for year-end and the new year. Thank you so much for contacting me about these connections. Yes! We are surely very distant cousins. My Hollocombe family comes from Crediton and Kings Nympton, Devon, with migration to Mawgan in Meneage, Cornwall about 1775. I descend through William Hollocombe, son of William Hollocombe & Frances Saunders.

The Bray connection is certain, but I can't extend it much past Anne Stephens Bray. I really wish I could learn who her parents were. I will study the information you have given me and see if I can make any progress.

Thank you, again, for your help!

Maurine

Re: Mary Penrose - Thomas Bray - of Redruth, Cornwall

Posted: 1 Jan 2011 10:42AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Stephens, Hollacombe, Bray and Penrose
Many thanks Maurine. I have found the results of the Y DNA testing which I have done with Ancestry and Familytreedna.com and also the Family Finder test for the latter, which covers male and female reletives back about 5 generations, very interesting and helpful. The Bray connection is intriguing as is the Hollacombe link. This just shows that family tree work is never as straightforward as you think it will be. Happy new year to you and your family.
Ken

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